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The Boundaryless Conversations Podcast

<p class="graf graf--p"><a class="markup--user markup--p-user" href="https://medium.com/u/fc285852de98" target="_blank" rel="noopener" data-href="https://medium.com/u/fc285852de98" data-anchor-type="2" data-user-id="fc285852de98" data-action-value="fc285852de98" data-action="show-user-card" data-action-type="hover">Indy Johar</a> and <a class="markup--user markup--p-user" href="https://medium.com/u/e9c9e2e1330" target="_blank" rel="noopener" data-href="https://medium.com/u/e9c9e2e1330" data-anchor-type="2" data-user-id="e9c9e2e1330" data-action-value="e9c9e2e1330" data-action="show-user-card" data-action-type="hover">Annette Dhami</a> from <a class="markup--user markup--p-user" href="https://medium.com/u/22eb6e4ee2e0" target="_blank" rel="noopener" data-href="https://medium.com/u/22eb6e4ee2e0" data-anchor-type="2" data-user-id="22eb6e4ee2e0" data-action-value="22eb6e4ee2e0" data-action="show-user-card" data-action-type="hover">Dark Matter</a> join us to talk about discovering, designing, and developing the institutional &#8220;Dark Matter&#8221; that supports a more democratic, distributed, and sustainable future.</p>


BOUNDARYLESS CONVERSATIONS PODCAST - SEASON 3 EP #2

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<p class="graf graf--p"><a class="markup--user markup--p-user" href="https://medium.com/u/22eb6e4ee2e0" target="_blank" rel="noopener" data-href="https://medium.com/u/22eb6e4ee2e0" data-anchor-type="2" data-user-id="22eb6e4ee2e0" data-action-value="22eb6e4ee2e0" data-action="show-user-card" data-action-type="hover">Dark Matter</a> is a multidisciplinary design team developing new working methods for system change. Today we’re joined by Indy Johar and Annette Dhami to discuss their mission of discovering, designing, and developing the institutional ‘dark matter’ that supports a more democratic, distributed, and sustainable future.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p class="graf graf--p">Indy Johar is a founding Director of 00 and Dark Matter Labs. An architect by training, Indy is a Senior Innovation Associate with the Young Foundation and a visiting Professor at the University of Sheffield. He co-founded Impact Hub Birmingham and Open Systems Lab, and was a member of the RSA’s Inclusive Growth Commission. He is a thought leader in system change, the future of urban infrastructure finance, outcome-based investment, and the future of governance.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p class="graf graf--p">Annette Dhami spent over a decade building, operating and driving mission-led (and often place-based) organisations and networks, including Impact Hubs (Brixton and Islington) and the Plymouth Social Enterprise Network, exploring how we organise, finance, use buildings, build networks and create economies for shared benefit. Annette joined Dark Matter Labs in 2020 to focus more deeply on how we organise and operate (in theory and creating this in practice) for transition. She holds the organising and operational work of the international Dark Matter Labs ecosystem (read more about that <a class="markup--anchor markup--p-anchor" href="https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6854067745865134080/" target="_blank" rel="noopener" data-href="https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6854067745865134080/">here</a>), and explores these organising questions more deeply in the multi-partner <a class="markup--anchor markup--p-anchor" href="https://provocations.darkmatterlabs.org/beyondtherules-e3ab44f0dc3" target="_blank" rel="noopener" data-href="https://provocations.darkmatterlabs.org/beyondtherules-e3ab44f0dc3">#BeyondtheRules</a> project.</p>
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<h3><strong>Key highlights of the conversation</strong></h3>
<p class="graf graf--p">We discussed:</p>
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<li class="graf graf--li">Dark Matter Labs’ ambitions for creating a real learning organization.</li>
<li class="graf graf--li">Governing by building learning capacity inside organizations.</li>
<li class="graf graf--li">The theory of “genius”: make people accountable through care and learning.</li>
<li class="graf graf--li">The ability to work diagonally across local and global dimensions.</li>
<li class="graf graf--li">Creating markets and new theories of value.</li>
<li class="graf graf--li">The tension and spectrum between “patronizing” governance and fostering autonomous (almost autocratic) entrepreneurialism.</li>
<li class="graf graf--li">Making space for care and innovation at every point in the system.</li>
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<p>&nbsp;</p>
<h4><strong class="markup--strong markup--h4-strong">To find out more about Annette Dhami and Indy Johar’s work:</strong></h4>
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<li class="graf graf--p">Website: <a class="markup--anchor markup--p-anchor" href="https://darkmatterlabs.org/" target="_blank" rel="noopener" data-href="https://darkmatterlabs.org/">https://darkmatterlabs.org/</a></li>
<li class="graf graf--p">Medium blog: <a class="markup--anchor markup--p-anchor" href="https://provocations.darkmatterlabs.org/" target="_blank" rel="noopener" data-href="https://provocations.darkmatterlabs.org/">https://provocations.darkmatterlabs.org/</a></li>
<li class="graf graf--p">Annette’s LinkedIn: <a class="markup--anchor markup--p-anchor" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/annette-dhami-1735554a/" target="_blank" rel="noopener" data-href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/annette-dhami-1735554a/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/annette-dhami-1735554a/</a></li>
<li class="graf graf--p">Indy’s LinkedIn: <a class="markup--anchor markup--p-anchor" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/indy-johar-b440b010/" target="_blank" rel="noopener" data-href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/indy-johar-b440b010/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/indy-johar-b440b010/</a></li>
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<p>&nbsp;</p>
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<h4><strong>Other references and mentions:</strong></h4>
<ul>
<li class="graf graf--p">The Beyond The Rules project: <a class="markup--anchor markup--p-anchor" href="https://provocations.darkmatterlabs.org/beyondtherules-e3ab44f0dc3" target="_blank" rel="noopener" data-href="https://provocations.darkmatterlabs.org/beyondtherules-e3ab44f0dc3">https://provocations.darkmatterlabs.org/beyondtherules-e3ab44f0dc3</a></li>
<li class="graf graf--p">Organising #BeyondTheRules series: <a class="markup--anchor markup--p-anchor" href="https://provocations.darkmatterlabs.org/organising-beyondtherules-at-dark-matter-labs-e59e4f5dd32f" target="_blank" rel="noopener" data-href="https://provocations.darkmatterlabs.org/organising-beyondtherules-at-dark-matter-labs-e59e4f5dd32f">https://provocations.darkmatterlabs.org/organising-beyondtherules-at-dark-matter-labs-e59e4f5dd32f</a></li>
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<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p class="graf graf--p">Find out more about the show and the research at Boundaryless at <a class="markup--anchor markup--p-anchor" href="https://boundaryless.io/resources/podcast/" target="_blank" rel="noopener" data-href="https://boundaryless.io/resources/podcast/">https://boundaryless.io/resources/podcast/</a></p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p class="graf graf--p">Thanks for the ad-hoc music to Liosound / Walter Mobilio. Find his portfolio here: <a class="markup--anchor markup--p-anchor" href="https://boundaryless.io/podcast-music" target="_blank" rel="noopener" data-href="https://boundaryless.io/podcast-music">https://boundaryless.io/podcast-music</a></p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p class="graf graf--p">Recorded on 26 October 2021.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p class="graf graf--p">🌐 <strong class="markup--strong markup--p-strong"><em class="markup--em markup--p-em">Boundaryless Conversations Podcast</em></strong><em class="markup--em markup--p-em"> is about exploring the future of organizing at scale by leveraging on technology, network effects, and shaping narratives. We explore how platforms can help us play with a world in turmoil, change, and transformation: a world that is at the same time more interconnected and interdependent than ever but also more conflictual and rivalrous.</em></p>
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Transcript 

Podcast Notes

Dark Matter Labs: rethinking organizing #BeyondTheRules – with Indy Johar and Annette Dhami

Listen

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The Latest Episode


<p><a href="https://medium.com/u/8aec33a1b502?source=post_page-----1aa1762a753e--------------------------------" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Simon Wardley</a> reminds us once again about the importance of understanding your landscape before you embark on a platform or ecosystem strategy. While a map will always be an imperfect representation of reality, it helps us understand why one-size-fits-all approaches will never work, and the importance of deeply understanding your value chain components and their state of evolution in order to design appropriate innovate-leverage-componentize strategies.</p>


BOUNDARYLESS CONVERSATIONS PODCAST — SEASON 2 EP #11

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<p id="6ace" class="jv jw lx jx b gs jy jz ka gv kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km kn ko kp kq fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">Wardley Mapping is a method used to help generate a shared understanding of strategic landscapes and their evolution. From all levels — individual businesses, industries, to Nation States and even culture — it can be applied to pretty much anything. And as our adopters know well, Wardley Maps are a key feature of platform strategy design. And the person who invented these maps is joining us on the podcast today: Simon Wardley.</p>
<p id="edbd" class="jv jw lx jx b gs jy jz ka gv kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km kn ko kp kq fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">Simon Wardley is a former CEO and advisory board member of startups (all now acquired by US Giants) and a fellow of Open Europe. He’s a regular conference speaker and a researcher for the Leading Edge Forum. Simon uses mapping in his research at the Leading Edge Forum, covering areas from Serverless to Nation State competition whilst also advising/teaching clients on mapping, strategy, organisation and leadership.</p>
<p id="7319" class="jv jw lx jx b gs jy jz ka gv kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km kn ko kp kq fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">You’ll hear about why the Economy should start learning from China, why Tech should go serverless, why Businesses should focus on doctrine, and what Simon means when he says Society should have that “We vs Me” conversation. You’ll probably find that this episode is worth listening to a few times to get the depth and breadth of the conversation!</p>
<p id="3a74" class="jv jw lx jx b gs jy jz ka gv kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km kn ko kp kq fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">We suggest you keep <a class="cd kx" href="https://twitter.com/swardley/status/1345718100407300098?s=09" rel="noopener">the Wardley’s Doctrine table</a> handy while listening.</p>
<p id="0cdf" class="jv jw lx jx b gs jy jz ka gv kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km kn ko kp kq fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph=""><strong class="jx kr">To find out more about Simon’s work:</strong></p>
<ul>
<li id="f09c" class="jv jw lx jx b gs jy jz ka gv kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km kn ko kp kq fd cr">Website: <a class="cd kx" href="https://learnwardleymapping.com/" rel="noopener">https://learnwardleymapping.com/</a></li>
<li id="e46f" class="jv jw lx jx b gs jy jz ka gv kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km kn ko kp kq fd cr">Twitter: <a class="cd kx" href="https://twitter.com/swardley" rel="noopener">https://twitter.com/swardley</a></li>
<li id="ba7e" class="jv jw lx jx b gs jy jz ka gv kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km kn ko kp kq fd cr">Medium: <a class="cd kx" href="https://medium.com/wardleymaps" rel="noopener">https://medium.com/wardleymaps</a></li>
<li id="57ba" class="jv jw lx jx b gs jy jz ka gv kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km kn ko kp kq fd cr">Wardley Maps: <a class="cd kx" href="https://list.wardleymaps.com/" rel="noopener">https://list.wardleymaps.com/</a></li>
</ul>
<p id="8510" class="jv jw lx jx b gs jy jz ka gv kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km kn ko kp kq fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph=""><strong class="jx kr">Other references and mentions:</strong></p>
<ul>
<li id="601b" class="jv jw lx jx b gs jy jz ka gv kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km kn ko kp kq fd cr">Simon Wardley, Wardley Mapping, The Knowledge: Part One, 2020: <a class="cd kx" href="https://www.amazon.com/Wardley-Mapping-Knowledge-Topographical-intelligence/dp/1913805182/" rel="noopener">https://www.amazon.com/Wardley-Mapping-Knowledge-Topographical-intelligence/dp/1913805182/</a></li>
<li id="96d9" class="jv jw lx jx b gs jy jz ka gv kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km kn ko kp kq fd cr">Avinash Dixit and Barry Nalebuff, The Art of Strategy: A Game Theorist’s Guide to Success in Business and Life, 2010: <a class="cd kx" href="https://www.amazon.com/Art-Strategy-Theorists-Success-Business/dp/0393337170/r" rel="noopener">https://www.amazon.com/Art-Strategy-Theorists-Success-Business/dp/0393337170/r</a></li>
<li id="4fd7" class="jv jw lx jx b gs jy jz ka gv kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km kn ko kp kq fd cr">Giancarlo Gonzalez Ascar, From Intention to Action: A Plan for the Digitalization of Puerto Rico, 2020: <a class="cd kx" href="https://www.amazon.com/Intention-Action-Digitalization-Puerto-Episode/dp/B08HGTJHJR/" rel="noopener">https://www.amazon.com/Intention-Action-Digitalization-Puerto-Episode/dp/B08HGTJHJR/</a></li>
<li id="881f" class="jv jw lx jx b gs jy jz ka gv kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km kn ko kp kq fd cr">Jonathan Allen and Thomas Blood, Reaching Cloud Velocity: A Leader’s Guide to Success in the AWS Cloud, 2020: <a class="cd kx" href="https://www.amazon.com/Reaching-Cloud-Velocity-Leaders-Success/dp/B086PTDP51" rel="noopener">https://www.amazon.com/Reaching-Cloud-Velocity-Leaders-Success/dp/B086PTDP51</a></li>
<li id="a30e" class="jv jw lx jx b gs jy jz ka gv kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km kn ko kp kq fd cr">Margaret Mead: <a class="cd kx" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Mead" rel="noopener">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Mead</a></li>
<li id="f5a1" class="jv jw lx jx b gs jy jz ka gv kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km kn ko kp kq fd cr">Elizabeth Shove, Mika Pantzar, Matt Watson, The Dynamics of Social Practice: Everyday Life and how it Changes, 2012: <a class="cd kx" href="https://www.amazon.com/Dynamics-Social-Practice-Everyday-Changes/dp/0857020439" rel="noopener">https://www.amazon.com/Dynamics-Social-Practice-Everyday-Changes/dp/0857020439</a></li>
<li id="73e6" class="jv jw lx jx b gs jy jz ka gv kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km kn ko kp kq fd cr">The Entrepreneurial Age: Networks and a fragmenting world — with Nicolas Colin: <a class="cd kx" href="https://stories.platformdesigntoolkit.com/the-entrepreneurial-age-networks-and-a-fragmenting-world-with-nicolas-colin-718c066b19bc" rel="noopener">https://stories.platformdesigntoolkit.com/the-entrepreneurial-age-networks-and-a-fragmenting-world-with-nicolas-colin-718c066b19bc</a></li>
<li id="9e39" class="jv jw lx jx b gs jy jz ka gv kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km kn ko kp kq fd cr">Control and Coherence in the New Strategy Playbook — with Rita McGrath: <a class="cd kx" href="https://stories.platformdesigntoolkit.com/control-and-coherence-in-the-new-strategy-playbook-with-rita-mcgrath-5346fefc7a36" rel="noopener">https://stories.platformdesigntoolkit.com/control-and-coherence-in-the-new-strategy-playbook-with-rita-mcgrath-5346fefc7a36</a></li>
<li id="5e3f" class="jv jw lx jx b gs jy jz ka gv kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km kn ko kp kq fd cr">Re-bundling the Firm around Problems to Be Solved — with Sangeet Paul Choudary: <a class="cd kx" href="https://stories.platformdesigntoolkit.com/re-bundling-the-firm-around-jobs-to-be-done-with-sangeet-paul-choudary-af69f7d2bcbb" rel="noopener">https://stories.platformdesigntoolkit.com/re-bundling-the-firm-around-jobs-to-be-done-with-sangeet-paul-choudary-af69f7d2bcbb</a></li>
<li id="f014" class="jv jw lx jx b gs jy jz ka gv kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km kn ko kp kq fd cr">Boundaryless whitepaper (2020), New Foundations of Platform-Ecosystem Thinking — Designing Products and Organizations for a changing world,<a class="cd kx" href="https://platformdesigntoolkit.com/DOWNLOAD-NF" rel="noopener"> https://platformdesigntoolkit.com/DOWNLOAD-NF</a></li>
</ul>
<p id="4bce" class="jv jw lx jx b gs jy jz ka gv kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km kn ko kp kq fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">Find out more about the show and the research at Boundaryless at <a href="https://boundaryless.io/resources/podcast/">https://boundaryless.io/resources/podcast/</a></p>
<p id="ab0e" class="jv jw lx jx b gs jy jz ka gv kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km kn ko kp kq fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">Thanks for the ad-hoc music to Liosound / Walter Mobilio. Find his portfolio here:<a class="cd kx" href="http://www.platformdesigntoolkit.com/music" rel="noopener"> www.platformdesigntoolkit.com/music</a></p>
<p id="4004" class="jv jw lx jx b gs jy jz ka gv kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km kn ko kp kq fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">Recorded on 27 January 2021.</p>
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<h1 id="927e" class="ky kz fl as la lb ly jz ld le lz kc lg lh ma lj lk ll mb ln lo lp mc lr ls lt cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">Key Insights</h1>
<p id="0ce4" class="jv jw lx jx b gs jy jz ka gv kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km kn ko kp kq fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">1. Simon points out that he is “quite well known for being somewhat harsh about stories”, since stories are highly political instruments that are linked to the story-tellers. Instead, <strong class="jx kr">Wardley Maps allow you to create a shared understanding of a landscape, in whichever sphere or arena you work</strong>. They allow you to challenge the map, rather than the person behind the map.</p>
<ul>
<li id="8b6c" class="jv jw lx jx b gs jy jz ka gv kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km kn ko kp kq fd cr"><em class="fl"> Listen to Simon explaining how mapping is fundamental to all his thinking from </em><a class="cd kx" href="https://soundcloud.com/boundaryless-pdt/s2-ep-11-simon-wardley-mapping-doctrine-and-culture-in-the-future-of-organizing/s-zP0PlgMtvwv#t=4:30" rel="noopener"><em class="fl">min 04:30</em></a><em class="fl">.</em></li>
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<p id="39d6" class="jv jw lx jx b gs jy jz ka gv kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km kn ko kp kq fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">2. <strong class="jx kr">Understanding the definition of success by “the spread of our beliefs and our values”</strong> enables us to connect economic, social, technological and political spaces. If we think about a country like the US, beliefs in democracy has been tightly — albeit questionably — coupled with economic success. But when another nation (like China) is more successful, it undermines those beliefs. When it comes to businesses, the idea of competing on beliefs and values relates to the ability to apply universally useful doctrine (Simon identified over 40 in his Wardley’s Doctrine table above). If you’re good at doctrine, you understand users, their needs, and you understand the landscape.</p>
<ul>
<li id="0ac8" class="jv jw lx jx b gs jy jz ka gv kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km kn ko kp kq fd cr"><em class="fl"> Listen to the discussion on how competition of values connects technology, society and politics from </em><a class="cd kx" href="https://soundcloud.com/boundaryless-pdt/s2-ep-11-simon-wardley-mapping-doctrine-and-culture-in-the-future-of-organizing/s-zP0PlgMtvwv#t=19:08" rel="noopener"><em class="fl">min 19:08.</em></a></li>
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<p id="8ebf" class="jv jw lx jx b gs jy jz ka gv kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km kn ko kp kq fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">3.<strong class="jx kr"> Co-evolution of practice</strong> <strong class="jx kr">is at the roots of universally useful patterns</strong> and principles of organizing. For example, as technology evolves, you often get co-evolution of practice. Simon explains this in relation to cloud: the shift from computer as a product to computers as a utility (cloud). Consequently, we have a shift of practice, from practices built around computers as products to practices with computers as a utility. According to Simon, the successful organization is about using principles to make it highly adaptable, adopting new practices as technology evolves. Amazon and Haier are two examples. He suggests that “if you took all the technology away from Amazo, and gave it to somebody else, give Amazon 10 to 15 years, they’d be back in the same position they are because they have a really good set of principles”.</p>
<ul>
<li id="cfbe" class="jv jw lx jx b gs jy jz ka gv kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km kn ko kp kq fd cr"> <em class="fl">Listen to Simon’s ideas around co-evolution of practice around </em><a class="cd kx" href="https://soundcloud.com/boundaryless-pdt/s2-ep-11-simon-wardley-mapping-doctrine-and-culture-in-the-future-of-organizing/s-zP0PlgMtvwv#t=27:40" rel="noopener"><em class="fl">min 27:40</em></a></li>
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<p id="9581" class="jv jw fl jx b gs jy jz ka gv kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km kn ko kp kq fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">? <strong class="jx kr"><em class="lx">Boundaryless Conversations Podcast</em></strong><em class="lx"> is about exploring the future of organizing at scale by leveraging on technology, network effects, and shaping narratives. We explore how platforms can help us play with a world in turmoil, change, and transformation: a world that is at the same time more interconnected and interdependent than ever but also more conflictual and rivalrous.</em></p>
<p id="c679" class="jv jw fl jx b gs jy jz ka gv kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km kn ko kp kq fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">This podcast is also available on <a class="cd kx" href="https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-boundaryless-conversations-podcast/id1505530552" rel="noopener">Apple Podcasts</a>, <a class="cd kx" href="https://open.spotify.com/show/5TFF8qgtS1IKMxCEhh3yGU" rel="noopener">Spotify</a>, <a class="cd kx" href="https://podcasts.google.com/?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tL2JvdW5kYXJ5bGVzcy9mZWVkLnhtbA&amp;ep=14" rel="noopener">Google Podcasts</a>, <a class="cd kx" href="https://soundcloud.com/boundaryless-pdt/sets/boundaryless-conversations" rel="noopener">Soundcloud</a>, <a class="cd kx" href="https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/boundaryless-conversations-podcast" rel="noopener">Stitcher</a>, <a class="cd kx" href="https://castbox.fm/channel/id2725503?country=gb" rel="noopener">CastBox</a>, <a class="cd kx" href="https://radiopublic.com/the-boundaryless-conversations-po-G4QrOd" rel="noopener">RadioPublic</a>, and other major podcasting platforms.</p>
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Transcript

Mapping, Doctrine, and Culture in the Future of Organizing — with Simon Wardley


<p><a href="https://medium.com/u/6d42133e3ebb?source=post_page-----5a2f233b9d23--------------------------------" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Nora Bateson</a> joins us for an earnest conversation where we delve into invisible assumptions, entanglement, and trans-contextual organizing. Together we explore what embracing a complexity standpoint truly means for an organization and for the relationships taking place within it and between that and other organizations.</p>


BOUNDARYLESS CONVERSATIONS PODCAST — SEASON 2 EP #13

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<p id="68bf" class="kp kq kr ks b gr kt jt ku gu kv jx kw kx ky kz la lb lc ld le lf lg lh li lj fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph=""><strong>Nora Bateson</strong> is an award-winning filmmaker, writer, facilitator and educator, as well as <strong>President of the International Bateson Institute based in Sweden</strong>. Her work asks the question <em>“how can we improve our perception of the complexity we live within, so we may improve our interaction with the world?”</em>. Nora wrote, directed and produced the award-winning documentary, <em>‘An Ecology of Mind’</em>, a portrait of her father, Gregory Bateson.</p>
<p id="6556" class="kp kq kr ks b gr kt jt ku gu kv jx kw kx ky kz la lb lc ld le lf lg lh li lj fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">Her work brings the fields of biology, cognition, art, anthropology, psychology, and information technology together into a study of the patterns in ecology of living systems. Her book, ‘Small Arcs of Larger Circles’ is a revolutionary personal approach to the study of systems and complexity, and the core text of the Harvard University LILA program 2017–18. Her new book, ‘Warm Data’, will be released in 2020 by Triarchy Press.</p>
<p id="0b4e" class="kp kq kr ks b gr kt jt ku gu kv jx kw kx ky kz la lb lc ld le lf lg lh li lj fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">Tune in to your conversation with Nora as we dive deeper into systemic accountability, “Warm Data” practices, and the power of context.</p>
<p id="4ae7" class="kp kq kr ks b gr kt jt ku gu kv jx kw kx ky kz la lb lc ld le lf lg lh li lj fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph=""><strong class="ks lk">To find out more about Nora’s work:</strong></p>
<ul>
<li id="f3a9" class="kp kq kr ks b gr kt jt ku gu kv jx kw kx ky kz la lb lc ld le lf lg lh li lj fd cr">Website:<a class="cd ll" href="https://norabateson.wordpress.com/" rel="noopener">https://norabateson.wordpress.com/</a></li>
<li id="69ec" class="kp kq kr ks b gr kt jt ku gu kv jx kw kx ky kz la lb lc ld le lf lg lh li lj fd cr">Twitter: <a class="cd ll" href="https://twitter.com/NoraBateson" rel="noopener">https://twitter.com/NoraBateson</a></li>
<li id="3aba" class="kp kq kr ks b gr kt jt ku gu kv jx kw kx ky kz la lb lc ld le lf lg lh li lj fd cr">Medium: <a class="cd ll" href="https://norabateson.medium.com/" rel="noopener">https://norabateson.medium.com/</a></li>
<li id="ba99" class="kp kq kr ks b gr kt jt ku gu kv jx kw kx ky kz la lb lc ld le lf lg lh li lj fd cr">WordPress: <a class="cd ll" href="https://norabateson.wordpress.com/" rel="noopener">https://norabateson.wordpress.com/</a></li>
<li id="5162" class="kp kq kr ks b gr kt jt ku gu kv jx kw kx ky kz la lb lc ld le lf lg lh li lj fd cr">The International Bateson Institute: <a class="cd ll" href="https://batesoninstitute.org/" rel="noopener">https://batesoninstitute.org/</a></li>
</ul>
<p id="7be5" class="kp kq kr ks b gr kt jt ku gu kv jx kw kx ky kz la lb lc ld le lf lg lh li lj fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph=""><strong class="ks lk">Other references and mentions:</strong></p>
<ul>
<li id="76a2" class="kp kq kr ks b gr kt jt ku gu kv jx kw kx ky kz la lb lc ld le lf lg lh li lj fd cr">Nora Bateson, <em class="fl">Small Arcs of Larger Circles: Framing Through Other Patterns</em>, 2016: <a class="cd ll" href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/Small-Arcs-Larger-Circles-Patterns/dp/1909470961" rel="noopener">https://www.amazon.co.uk/Small-Arcs-Larger-Circles-Patterns/dp/1909470961</a></li>
<li id="e5cc" class="kp kq kr ks b gr kt jt ku gu kv jx kw kx ky kz la lb lc ld le lf lg lh li lj fd cr">Organizations as Architectures for Complexity — with Joe Norman: <a class="cd ll" href="https://stories.platformdesigntoolkit.com/organizations-as-architectures-for-complexity-with-joe-norman-5eebf5d1362e" rel="noopener">https://stories.platformdesigntoolkit.com/organizations-as-architectures-for-complexity-with-joe-norman-5eebf5d1362e</a></li>
<li id="defe" class="kp kq kr ks b gr kt jt ku gu kv jx kw kx ky kz la lb lc ld le lf lg lh li lj fd cr">Joe Norman, “Generating wholes”: <a class="cd ll" href="http://jwnorman.com/?p=4948" rel="noopener">http://jwnorman.com/?p=4948</a></li>
<li id="5980" class="kp kq kr ks b gr kt jt ku gu kv jx kw kx ky kz la lb lc ld le lf lg lh li lj fd cr">Boundaryless Whitepaper, New Foundations of Platform-Ecosystem Thinking — Designing Products and Organizations for a changing world,<a class="cd ll" href="https://platformdesigntoolkit.com/DOWNLOAD-NF" rel="noopener"> 2020: https://platformdesigntoolkit.com/DOWNLOAD-NF</a></li>
<li id="7371" class="kp kq kr ks b gr kt jt ku gu kv jx kw kx ky kz la lb lc ld le lf lg lh li lj fd cr">Transition Network: <a class="cd ll" href="https://transitionnetwork.org/" rel="noopener">https://transitionnetwork.org/</a></li>
<li id="b006" class="kp kq kr ks b gr kt jt ku gu kv jx kw kx ky kz la lb lc ld le lf lg lh li lj fd cr">Warm Data Lab: <a class="cd ll" href="https://warmdatalab.net/" rel="noopener">https://warmdatalab.net/</a></li>
<li id="03cd" class="kp kq kr ks b gr kt jt ku gu kv jx kw kx ky kz la lb lc ld le lf lg lh li lj fd cr">Warm Data Podcast: <a class="cd ll" href="https://www.warmdatapodcast.com/" rel="noopener">https://www.warmdatapodcast.com/</a></li>
</ul>
<p id="7530" class="kp kq kr ks b gr kt jt ku gu kv jx kw kx ky kz la lb lc ld le lf lg lh li lj fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">Find out more about the show and the research at Boundaryless at <a href="https://boundaryless.io/resources/podcast/">https://boundaryless.io/resources/podcast/</a></p>
<p id="29a6" class="kp kq kr ks b gr kt jt ku gu kv jx kw kx ky kz la lb lc ld le lf lg lh li lj fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">Thanks for the ad-hoc music to Liosound / Walter Mobilio. Find his portfolio here:<a class="cd ll" href="http://www.platformdesigntoolkit.com/music" rel="noopener"> www.platformdesigntoolkit.com/music</a></p>
<p id="4e74" class="kp kq kr ks b gr kt jt ku gu kv jx kw kx ky kz la lb lc ld le lf lg lh li lj fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">Recorded on 12 March 2021.</p>
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<h1 id="6ec7" class="jo jp fl as jq jr ls jt ju jv lt jx jy jz lu kb kc kd lv kf kg kh lw kj kk kl cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">Key Insights</h1>
<p id="a30e" class="kp kq kr ks b gr kt jt ku gu kv jx kw kx ky kz la lb lc ld le lf lg lh li lj fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">1. Systemic accountability does away with the idea of discrete edges of an organization. Looking at organizing as a living system, whatever that aspect of it, Nora explains that it’s never only “that” [aspect], there is always more. She highlights that: “if we want to think about what an organization looks like, in a way that deals with complexity, it is something that is going to absorb and respond — and be sensitive in its response — to a completely different order of integrity, generosity, and accountability”. Right now, she claims, the way in which organizations are forming discrete edges around themselves protects them from shared integrity.</p>
<ul>
<li id="f50f" class="kp kq kr ks b gr kt jt ku gu kv jx kw kx ky kz la lb lc ld le lf lg lh li lj fd cr"> Listen to Nora talk about systemic accountability and shared integrity from <a class="cd ll" href="https://soundcloud.com/boundaryless-pdt/s2-ep-13-norah-bateson-trans-contextual-organizing-shifting-perceptions/s-dqs5ikOaxge#t=8:10" rel="noopener">min 08:10</a>.</li>
</ul>
<p id="3e8b" class="kp kq kr ks b gr kt jt ku gu kv jx kw kx ky kz la lb lc ld le lf lg lh li lj fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">2. The journey towards more shared integrity happens in relationships. Nora points out that, although we have been trained to think that our accomplishments are our own, these assumptions and existing organizational concepts have also been produced in relationships. When you start to question them, you realize that nothing is purely “our own”. According to Nora, some of the questions to ask are: “what are you tending to? What are you taking care of? What are you nurturing and bringing vitality to?”</p>
<ul>
<li id="0b5b" class="kp kq kr ks b gr kt jt ku gu kv jx kw kx ky kz la lb lc ld le lf lg lh li lj fd cr"> Listen to how we evolve in relationships from <a class="cd ll" href="https://soundcloud.com/boundaryless-pdt/s2-ep-13-norah-bateson-trans-contextual-organizing-shifting-perceptions/s-dqs5ikOaxge#t=23:11" rel="noopener">min 23:11</a>.</li>
</ul>
<p id="d511" class="kp kq kr ks b gr kt jt ku gu kv jx kw kx ky kz la lb lc ld le lf lg lh li lj fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">3. Changing the structure of an organization is not going to generate any big changes. What we really need to delve into are questions related to culture, entanglement, perception, and epistemology. By changing our perception — for example, through Warm Data practices and trans-contextual understanding — we can generate attention to second-, third- and fourth-order relational processes, from which structures can really change. In the words of Nora: “you create the context where epistemologies and ways of perceiving shift, and then the structures change”.</p>
<ul>
<li id="c14e" class="kp kq kr ks b gr kt jt ku gu kv jx kw kx ky kz la lb lc ld le lf lg lh li lj fd cr"> Listen to the discussion around culture, entanglement, warm data and trans-contexutality from <a class="cd ll" href="https://soundcloud.com/boundaryless-pdt/s2-ep-13-norah-bateson-trans-contextual-organizing-shifting-perceptions/s-dqs5ikOaxge#t=31:23" rel="noopener">min 31:23</a> and onwards.</li>
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<p id="1d70" class="kp kq fl ks b gr kt jt ku gu kv jx kw kx ky kz la lb lc ld le lf lg lh li lj fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">? <strong class="ks lk"><em class="kr">Boundaryless Conversations Podcast</em></strong><em class="kr"> is about exploring the future of organizing at scale by leveraging on technology, network effects, and shaping narratives. We explore how platforms can help us play with a world in turmoil, change, and transformation: a world that is at the same time more interconnected and interdependent than ever but also more conflictual and rivalrous.</em></p>
<p id="7976" class="kp kq fl ks b gr kt jt ku gu kv jx kw kx ky kz la lb lc ld le lf lg lh li lj fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">This podcast is also available on <a class="cd ll" href="https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-boundaryless-conversations-podcast/id1505530552" rel="noopener">Apple Podcasts</a>, <a class="cd ll" href="https://open.spotify.com/show/5TFF8qgtS1IKMxCEhh3yGU" rel="noopener">Spotify</a>, <a class="cd ll" href="https://podcasts.google.com/?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tL2JvdW5kYXJ5bGVzcy9mZWVkLnhtbA&amp;ep=14" rel="noopener">Google Podcasts</a>, <a class="cd ll" href="https://soundcloud.com/boundaryless-pdt/sets/boundaryless-conversations" rel="noopener">Soundcloud</a>, <a class="cd ll" href="https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/boundaryless-conversations-podcast" rel="noopener">Stitcher</a>, <a class="cd ll" href="https://castbox.fm/channel/id2725503?country=gb" rel="noopener">CastBox</a>, <a class="cd ll" href="https://radiopublic.com/the-boundaryless-conversations-po-G4QrOd" rel="noopener">RadioPublic</a>, and other major podcasting platforms.</p>
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Trans-contextual Organizing: Shifting Perceptions — with Nora Bateson


<p><a href="https://medium.com/u/b29cb8a5ba65?source=post_page-----88ef04b7fadb--------------------------------" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Dave Snowden</a> helps us unpack ideas around the next generation of organizational design that enables “contextually unique solutions to emerge and adapt based on a coherent whole”. We go into what contextually unique solutions mean for the shape of organizations, and what type of leadership is needed to deal with uncertainty while shaping and making visible the coherent whole.</p>


BOUNDARYLESS CONVERSATIONS PODCAST — SEASON 2 EP #5

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<p id="93b3" class="kv kw kx ky b gr kz jz la gu lb kd lc ld le lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">Today we’re talking to Professor Dave Snowden, the Founder and Chief Scientific Officer at Cognitive Edge and Director of the Cynefin Centre Wales. His internationally acclaimed work covers government and industry, and looks at the complex issues of strategy, organisational development and decision making. He has pioneered a science-based approach to organizations drawing on anthropology, neuroscience, and complex adaptive systems theory. He is a popular and passionate keynote speaker on a range of subjects, and is well-known for his pragmatic cynicism and iconoclastic style.</p>
<p id="ec10" class="kv kw kx ky b gr kz jz la gu lb kd lc ld le lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">Dave holds visiting Chairs at the University of Pretoria and Hong Kong Polytechnic University, as well as a visiting fellowship at the University of Warwick. He is a senior fellow at the Institute of Defense and Strategic Studies at Nanyang University and the Civil Service College in Singapore.</p>
<p id="afd4" class="kv kw kx ky b gr kz jz la gu lb kd lc ld le lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">In this conversation, we start by exploring a frequently used idea and quote from Dave in our emerging work on organizational design, namely that the “next generation of organizational design is about contextually unique solutions to emerge and adapt based on a coherent whole”.</p>
<p id="a5cc" class="kv kw kx ky b gr kz jz la gu lb kd lc ld le lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">We then go more specifically into what having context-specific solutions means, and talk about the need to build systems which do not assume that you create a rational objective human being, but which work more in tune with ideas of diversity within constraints, like in nature.</p>
<p id="ed3f" class="kv kw kx ky b gr kz jz la gu lb kd lc ld le lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">Dave talks about the importance, especially for entrepreneurial organisations, to build internal scaffolding — a sort of endoskeleton that empowers the organization to grow and adapt more easily in a complex and rapidly changing world, compared to external scaffolding which gives a more rigid structure that could be more apt in times of temporary crisis management, for instance.</p>
<p id="190e" class="kv kw kx ky b gr kz jz la gu lb kd lc ld le lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">He also describes how, in the current nexus moment, experimenting novel forms of widely distributed citizen engagement in problem solving will be needed to face the challenges ahead, in terms of economic depression and massive unemployment. And we need to learn to become more “virtuous” in the process.</p>
<p id="fb72" class="kv kw kx ky b gr kz jz la gu lb kd lc ld le lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">This process will be highly collaborative and collective. According to Dave Snowden, as we move ahead in this challenging start of the century, “the capacity to manage with uncertainty is going to be something we need to build communities around”.</p>
<p id="4406" class="kv kw kx ky b gr kz jz la gu lb kd lc ld le lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph=""><strong class="ky lq">To find out more about Dave’s work:</strong></p>
<ul>
<li id="8b9b" class="kv kw kx ky b gr kz jz la gu lb kd lc ld le lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp fd cr"> Website: <a class="cd lr" href="https://www.cognitive-edge.com/" rel="noopener">https://www.cognitive-edge.com/</a></li>
<li id="c324" class="kv kw kx ky b gr kz jz la gu lb kd lc ld le lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp fd cr"> Youtube: <a class="cd lr" href="https://www.youtube.com/user/CognitiveEdge" rel="noopener">https://www.youtube.com/user/CognitiveEdge</a></li>
<li id="571e" class="kv kw kx ky b gr kz jz la gu lb kd lc ld le lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp fd cr"> Twitter: <a class="cd lr" href="https://twitter.com/snowded" rel="noopener">https://twitter.com/snowded</a></li>
</ul>
<p id="37db" class="kv kw kx ky b gr kz jz la gu lb kd lc ld le lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph=""><strong class="ky lq">Other references and mentions:</strong></p>
<ul>
<li id="32de" class="kv kw kx ky b gr kz jz la gu lb kd lc ld le lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp fd cr"> Dave Snowden, Zhen Goh, Sue Borchardt, Riva Greenberg, Boudewijn Bertsch, Sonja Blignaut, <em class="fl">Cynefin: Weaving Sense-Making into the Fabric of Our World</em>, 2020: <a class="cd lr" href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cynefin-Weaving-Sense-Making-Fabric-World-ebook/dp/B08LZKDCYM" rel="noopener">https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cynefin-Weaving-Sense-Making-Fabric-World-ebook/dp/B08LZKDCYM</a></li>
<li id="8ca8" class="kv kw kx ky b gr kz jz la gu lb kd lc ld le lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp fd cr"> The Cynefin framework: <a class="cd lr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynefin_framework" rel="noopener">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynefin_framework</a></li>
<li class="kv kw kx ky b gr kz jz la gu lb kd lc ld le lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp fd cr"> Embeddedness: Exploring the Roots of the Eastern idea of Organizing — with Alicia Hennig: <a class="cd lr" href="https://stories.platformdesigntoolkit.com/embeddedness-exploring-the-roots-of-the-eastern-idea-of-organizing-with-alicia-hennig-62cbb75fce0f" rel="noopener">https://stories.platformdesigntoolkit.com/embeddedness-exploring-the-roots-of-the-eastern-idea-of-organizing-with-alicia-hennig-62cbb75fce0f</a></li>
<li id="f0a2" class="kv kw kx ky b gr kz jz la gu lb kd lc ld le lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp fd cr"> Terry Eagleton, <em class="fl">Radical Sacrifice</em>, 2018: <a class="cd lr" href="https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Sacrifice-Terry-Eagleton/dp/0300233353" rel="noopener">https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Sacrifice-Terry-Eagleton/dp/0300233353</a></li>
<li id="5d07" class="kv kw kx ky b gr kz jz la gu lb kd lc ld le lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp fd cr"> Terry Eagleton, <em class="fl">Hope Without Optimism</em>, 2019: <a class="cd lr" href="https://www.amazon.com/Hope-Without-Optimism-Terry-Eagleton/dp/0300248679/" rel="noopener">https://www.amazon.com/Hope-Without-Optimism-Terry-Eagleton/dp/0300248679/</a></li>
<li id="154c" class="kv kw kx ky b gr kz jz la gu lb kd lc ld le lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp fd cr"> SAFe®: <a class="cd lr" href="https://www.scaledagileframework.com/" rel="noopener">https://www.scaledagileframework.com/</a></li>
</ul>
<p id="4f91" class="kv kw kx ky b gr kz jz la gu lb kd lc ld le lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">Find out more about the show and the research at Boundaryless at: <a href="https://boundaryless.io/resources/podcast/">https://boundaryless.io/resources/podcast/</a></p>
<p id="05b2" class="kv kw kx ky b gr kz jz la gu lb kd lc ld le lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">Thanks for the ad-hoc music to Liosound / Walter Mobilio. Find his portfolio here: <a class="cd lr" href="http://www.platformdesigntoolkit.com/music" rel="noopener">www.platformdesigntoolkit.com/music</a></p>
<p id="98d9" class="kv kw kx ky b gr kz jz la gu lb kd lc ld le lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">Recorded on 26 October 2020.</p>
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<h1 id="7f87" class="ju jv fl as jw jx jy jz ka kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km kn ko kp kq kr cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">Key Insights</h1>
<p id="95a7" class="kv kw kx ky b gr kz jz la gu lb kd lc ld le lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">1. One of the key components of building complexity-friendly and adaptive organizations is “scaffolding”: internal and external. While external scaffolding can be thought of as a rigid structure — an exoskeleton — that doesn’t allow for scaling, internal scaffolding is one that allows for growth and diversity to emerge on top of its initial structure, like a human skeleton. This is more apt for entrepreneurial organizations that need to adapt swiftly to changing circumstances.</p>
<p id="966c" class="kv kw kx ky b gr kz jz la gu lb kd lc ld le lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">2. Leadership and hierarchy that is tailored around exchangeable roles rather than individuals imply collective leadership through crews instead of individual leaders. And when it comes to bringing the whole organization along and foster coherence, as Dave puts it: “a lot of our work around leadership is finding naturally occurring heuristics, clustering them, articulating them, linking with teaching stories, making sure they’re verifiable, and using those as a linkage constraint within the system to get alignment”.</p>
<p id="6c69" class="kv kw kx ky b gr kz jz la gu lb kd lc ld le lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">3. In the current “ nexus moment”, things could turn either better or get significantly worse. People, therefore, need to be educated around virtue ethics: we need to build distributed education around both being virtuous and being able to deal with uncertainty, since the future is going to be messy. Ontological frameworks like Cynefin — which celebrates 21 years in 2020 — have proven to be powerful as a means to teach and guide our relationship with uncertainty.</p>
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<p id="bcae" class="kv kw fl ky b gr kz jz la gu lb kd lc ld le lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">? <strong class="ky lq"><em class="kx">Boundaryless Conversations Podcast</em></strong><em class="kx"> is about exploring the future of large scale organizing by leveraging on technology, network effects, and shaping narratives. We explore how platforms can help us play with a world in turmoil, change, and transformation: a world that is at the same time more interconnected and interdependent than ever but also more conflictual and rivalrous.</em></p>
<p id="f7e5" class="kv kw fl ky b gr kz jz la gu lb kd lc ld le lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp fd cr" data-selectable-paragraph="">This podcast is also available on <a class="cd lr" href="https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-boundaryless-conversations-podcast/id1505530552" rel="noopener">Apple Podcasts</a>, <a class="cd lr" href="https://open.spotify.com/show/5TFF8qgtS1IKMxCEhh3yGU" rel="noopener">Spotify</a>, <a class="cd lr" href="https://podcasts.google.com/?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tL2JvdW5kYXJ5bGVzcy9mZWVkLnhtbA&amp;ep=14" rel="noopener">Google Podcasts</a>, <a class="cd lr" href="https://soundcloud.com/boundaryless-pdt/sets/boundaryless-conversations" rel="noopener">Soundcloud</a>, <a class="cd lr" href="https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/boundaryless-conversations-podcast" rel="noopener">Stitcher</a>, <a class="cd lr" href="https://castbox.fm/channel/id2725503?country=gb" rel="noopener">CastBox</a>, <a class="cd lr" href="https://radiopublic.com/the-boundaryless-conversations-po-G4QrOd" rel="noopener">RadioPublic</a>, and other major podcasting platforms.</p>
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Building Scalable Organizations that can Deal with Uncertainty — with Dave Snowden


<p>Alex Osterwalder talks about why, in the furiously changing world of today, innovation portfolio management is a must, as well as transforming innovation into a pervasive process inside the organization. Together with Bill Fischer, we ponder several ways to do this, looking into both the present and the future.</p>


BOUNDARYLESS CONVERSATIONS PODCAST — SEASON 1 EP #12

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<p id="2dd8" class="ky kz la lb b gv lc ld le gy lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp lq lr ls lt lu fh bx" data-selectable-paragraph="">In this episode, <strong>Simone Cicero</strong> is joined by a special co-host and former guest on the podcast — <strong>Bill Fischer</strong> — Professor of Innovation Management at IMD Business School in Lausanne.</p>
<p id="6a8e" class="ky kz la lb b gv lc ld le gy lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp lq lr ls lt lu fh bx" data-selectable-paragraph="">Together they pick the brain of nobody less than <strong>Alex Osterwalder</strong>, whose work continues to influence the way established companies do business innovation and how new ventures get started. The inventor of the Business Model Canvas, Value Proposition Canvas, and Business Portfolio Map together with Yves Pigneur, Alex just released a new book called <em class="fp">The Invincible Company</em>, whose ideas are mentioned throughout the conversation.</p>
<p id="d5bf" class="ky kz la lb b gv lc ld le gy lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp lq lr ls lt lu fh bx" data-selectable-paragraph="">Alex talks about why, in the furiously changing world of today, innovation portfolio management is a must, as well as transforming innovation into a pervasive process inside the organization: we also debate a lot on the several ways to do it.</p>
<p id="3aba" class="ky kz la lb b gv lc ld le gy lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp lq lr ls lt lu fh bx" data-selectable-paragraph="">We also talk about the responsibility of companies to become great workplaces — being able to keep and reallocate talent across business units — and serve society beyond shareholder interests. Enjoy this jam full episode!</p>
<p id="5eff" class="ky kz la lb b gv lc ld le gy lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp lq lr ls lt lu fh bx" data-selectable-paragraph="">Here are some important links from the conversation:</p>
<p id="c826" class="ky kz la lb b gv lc ld le gy lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp lq lr ls lt lu fh bx" data-selectable-paragraph="">About Alex Osterwalder and his work:</p>
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<li id="f42d" class="ky kz la lb b gv lc ld le gy lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp lq lr ls lt lu fh bx">Alexander Osterwalder, Yves Pigneur, Alan Smith, Frederic Etiemble, <em class="fp">The Invincible Company</em>: <a class="cd lv" href="https://www.amazon.com/Invincible-Company-Alexander-Osterwalder/dp/1119523966" rel="noopener">https://www.amazon.com/Invincible-Company-Alexander-Osterwalder/dp/1119523966</a></li>
<li id="ca2c" class="ky kz la lb b gv lc ld le gy lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp lq lr ls lt lu fh bx">Strategyzer: <a class="cd lv" href="https://www.strategyzer.com/" rel="noopener">https://www.strategyzer.com/</a></li>
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<p id="70c3" class="ky kz la lb b gv lc ld le gy lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp lq lr ls lt lu fh bx" data-selectable-paragraph="">Other mentions and references:</p>
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<li id="41cf" class="ky kz la lb b gv lc ld le gy lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp lq lr ls lt lu fh bx">Rita McGrath, “Transient Advantage”, HBR, 06/2013: <a class="cd lv" href="https://hbr.org/2013/06/transient-advantage" rel="noopener">https://hbr.org/2013/06/transient-advantage</a></li>
<li id="8fa9" class="ky kz la lb b gv lc ld le gy lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp lq lr ls lt lu fh bx">Scott Anthony, “Breaking down the barriers to innovation”, HBR, 11/2019: <a class="cd lv" href="https://hbr.org/2019/11/breaking-down-the-barriers-to-innovation" rel="noopener">https://hbr.org/2019/11/breaking-down-the-barriers-to-innovation</a></li>
<li id="7906" class="ky kz la lb b gv lc ld le gy lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp lq lr ls lt lu fh bx">Rita McGrath, Seeing around Corners, interview with Aperture: <a class="cd lv" href="https://medium.com/aperture-hub/seeing-around-corners-19-ec64b2260337" rel="noopener">https://medium.com/aperture-hub/seeing-around-corners-19-ec64b2260337</a></li>
<li id="90fd" class="ky kz la lb b gv lc ld le gy lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp lq lr ls lt lu fh bx">All Things Marketplaces with Dan Hockenmaier, Casey Winters, and Lenny Rachitsky, Village Global’s Venture Stories: <a class="cd lv" href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/all-things-marketplaces-dan-hockenmaier-casey-winters/id1316769266?i=1000467536947" rel="noopener">https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/all-things-marketplaces-dan-hockenmaier-casey-winters/id1316769266?i=1000467536947</a></li>
<li id="e1bf" class="ky kz la lb b gv lc ld le gy lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp lq lr ls lt lu fh bx">Companies mentioned in the conversation: Amazon, Ping An, W.L. Gore, Logitech, Kodak, Haier</li>
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<p id="fe0b" class="ky kz la lb b gv lc ld le gy lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp lq lr ls lt lu fh bx" data-selectable-paragraph="">Find out more about the show and the research at Boundaryless at: <a href="https://boundaryless.io/resources/podcast/">https://boundaryless.io/resources/podcast/</a></p>
<p id="4b1c" class="ky kz la lb b gv lc ld le gy lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp lq lr ls lt lu fh bx" data-selectable-paragraph="">Thanks for the ad-hoc music to Liosound / Walter Mobilio find his portfolio here: <a class="cd lv" href="http://www.platformdesigntoolkit.com/music" rel="noopener">www.platformdesigntoolkit.com/music</a></p>
<p id="62ac" class="ky kz la lb b gv lc ld le gy lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp lq lr ls lt lu fh bx" data-selectable-paragraph="">Recorded on May 11th 2020</p>
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<h1 id="d18a" class="md kh fp as ki me mf ld kl mg mh lg ko mi mj mk kq ml mm mn ks mo mp mq ku mr bx" data-selectable-paragraph="">Key Insights</h1>
<p id="000f" class="ky kz la lb b gv lc ld le gy lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp lq lr ls lt lu fh bx" data-selectable-paragraph=""><strong class="lb ms">1. Portfolio management — a key idea explored in Alex’s new book <em class="fp">The Invincible Company</em> — includes two main portfolio types: one to explore future directions and one to exploit and execute ideas in the present</strong>. What most organisations still need to figure out is how to empower people to innovate and create legitimate spaces in the organisation to explore new ideas on the one hand, and on the other hand having a process to sort out the ideas that get traction and incorporate them into the execution part of the business. The right level of integration between these two functions is the sweet spot that many companies still are trying to find. Like Alex says: “<em class="fp">It’s about creating that giant incubator, that little Silicon Valley within, and at the same time being world class at execution</em>”. Leaders, in the portfolio management context, need to provide “portfolio guidance”, a mix between art and science, where you’re constantly testing and adapting your ideas until it really makes sense.<br />
In this process the role of distributed profit and loss and the idea to transform the organization in a dynamic entrepreneurial network migh constitute the next big shift out of bureaucratic thinking.</p>
<p id="2614" class="ky kz la lb b gv lc ld le gy lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp lq lr ls lt lu fh bx" data-selectable-paragraph="">2. Related to portfolio management, there are different types of innovation that need to be in the mix: efficiency-innovation making business models and processes better, sustaining innovation, which is expanding about expanding existing business model with new value propositions, and more transformative innovation, inventing the future and creating entire new P&amp;L or growth engines (think Amazon’s AWS). In order to unleash the potential of these levers, Alex ponders on the need to remove “innovation blockers”, like for example ex ante business plans through up on PPTs and spreadsheets.</p>
<p class="ky kz la lb b gv lc ld le gy lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp lq lr ls lt lu fh bx" data-selectable-paragraph="">3. While transformative innovation enabled through the organization can radically disrupt its structure, it does not need to cannibalise it and get rid of the people who have dedicated their careers to the “execution” side of the company. Instead, a more dynamic model is needed where talent is re-allocated across business units as the organisation evolves. Indeed, creating great workplaces that enable people to be their best — and to subscribe to the company&#8217;s wider purpose in society — is becoming an essential “layer”, following Alex’s words, building on top of user experience and growth.</p>
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<p id="baac" class="ky kz fp lb b gv lc ld le gy lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp lq lr ls lt lu fh bx" data-selectable-paragraph="">? <strong class="lb ms"><em class="la">Boundaryless Conversations Podcast</em></strong><em class="la"> is about exploring the future of large scale organising by leveraging on technology, network effects and shaping narratives. We explore how platforms can help us play with a world in turmoil, change, and transformation: a world that is at the same time more interconnected and interdependent than ever but also more conflictual and rivalrous.</em></p>
<p id="c96d" class="ky kz fp lb b gv lc ld le gy lf lg lh li lj lk ll lm ln lo lp lq lr ls lt lu fh bx" data-selectable-paragraph="">This podcast is also available on <a class="cd lv" href="https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-boundaryless-conversations-podcast/id1505530552" rel="noopener">Apple Podcasts</a>, <a class="cd lv" href="https://open.spotify.com/show/5TFF8qgtS1IKMxCEhh3yGU" rel="noopener">Spotify</a>, <a class="cd lv" href="https://podcasts.google.com/?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tL2JvdW5kYXJ5bGVzcy9mZWVkLnhtbA&amp;ep=14" rel="noopener">Google Podcasts</a>, <a class="cd lv" href="https://soundcloud.com/boundaryless-pdt/sets/boundaryless-conversations" rel="noopener">Soundcloud</a>, <a class="cd lv" href="https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/boundaryless-conversations-podcast" rel="noopener">Stitcher</a>, <a class="cd lv" href="https://castbox.fm/channel/id2725503?country=gb" rel="noopener">CastBox</a>, <a class="cd lv" href="https://radiopublic.com/the-boundaryless-conversations-po-G4QrOd" rel="noopener">RadioPublic</a>, and other major podcasting platforms.</p>
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Unleashing Thoughtful Innovation at Scale — with Alex Osterwalder

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<p>The Boundaryless Conversations Podcast is an ongoing exploration of the future of Platforms & Ecosystems. During our conversations we explore the newly emerging perspectives about how we organize at scale in a rapidly changing world. It's usually hosted by Simone Cicero and Stina Heikkila, with other occasional co-hosts.</p>


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<p><strong>Boundaryless</strong> website used to be <em>platformdesigntoolkit.com</em> but now we have a new home at <em>boundaryless.io</em>!</p>
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<p>We have grown a lot over the past few years: now we don&#8217;t only cover platform design, with the <strong>Platform Design Toolkit</strong>, but also entrepreneurial organization development with the <strong>3EO Toolkit</strong>.<br />
We have just redesigned our brand and our website to better accommodate this and we believe we are much better represented now.</p>
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The Boundaryless Conversations Podcast

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Unleashing Thoughtful Innovation at Scale — with Alex Osterwalder

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